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==Advanced Abilities==
Hi Notus, regarding the Myconian update, when you add a Training section to the NPC, could you also copy/paste the abilities to the relevant Skill page, in a "Advanced Abilities" section? See [[Skill Template]]. Don't worry about documenting it in detail, if you just copy/paste the list that gets us started, so we know which NPC to go to (from the relevant skill page), and we can detail this advanced abilities table at a later time. --[[User:Gorgonzola|Gorgonzola]] ([[User talk:Gorgonzola|talk]]) 07:45, 6 October 2014 (CDT)
==Where to Detail Recipes==
Also in light of yesterday's in-game chat, I suppose it makes sense that we add all Recipes likewise to the Cooking , Carpentry, and other relevant skills. So if a player looks up cooking, all recipes would be there. It might be long.. but I don't see another solution. If they all are in the relevant crafting skill, then we can sort by NPC, or by level which is interesting (ie. see closest upgrade recipes, across any NPCs or other sources). So both Combat abilities and Recipes are like a mini TOC in the NPC pages, and the details are in the relevant skill page. Maybe we can find later a way to use # hash tag links to jump to the part of the table that is relevant to the NPC. --[[User:Gorgonzola|Gorgonzola]] ([[User talk:Gorgonzola|talk]]) 07:45, 6 October 2014 (CDT)
==Notification System==
Hi Notus, could you reply to this comment with a single indent (":") (see [http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Help:Talk_pages#Editing_conventions_on_talk_pages Using Talk Pages]). I would like to find out whether commenting (with the indents) sends a notification, even though you are posting on your own Talk Page. I suspect that it won't, as that is a feature in Wikipedia that requires some other extension. But I'm not sure yet. Thanks. --[[User:Gorgonzola|Gorgonzola]] ([[User talk:Gorgonzola|talk]]) 08:47, 6 October 2014 (CDT)
:Testing the reply function. Just about done the map (doing three different versions). Thanks --[[User:NotesOfNotus|NotesOfNotus]] ([[User talk:NotesOfNotus|talk]]) 19:33, 6 October 2014 (CDT)
::Awesome thank you. I confirm it doesn't work. I just refreshed the page recently and there wasn't any. --[[User:Gorgonzola|Gorgonzola]] ([[User talk:Gorgonzola|talk]]) 19:49, 6 October 2014 (CDT)
::: Interestingly, I got a notification from both your comments.--[[User:NotesOfNotus|NotesOfNotus]] ([[User talk:NotesOfNotus|talk]]) 19:56, 6 October 2014 (CDT)
:::: Yup, because it is on your own Talk page. But if I were to reply to you on another talk page, you won't get a notif. (not without some other extensions installed in the wiki). (so I saw your reply here in Recent Changes, but didn't get notified). --[[User:Gorgonzola|Gorgonzola]] ([[User talk:Gorgonzola|talk]]) 20:58, 6 October 2014 (CDT)
== NPC Shop Icons ==
Hi guys. I think the basic Shop icons templating is ready for use. See [[NPC Template]] and [[Item Icons Guide]]. Many icons are reused in-game so a lot of items in shop listings should be covered. We will just add icons over time whenever the fancy arise :) I have some ideas to make it easier to create those shop listings (with a little script).. but for now that's how it works. IF you somehow want more data on the shop, msg me in-game (Gorgonzola), or post on my page, or post on the [[Talk:NPC Template]] I should see it. Currently you can see one idea for Lucky Belt is I used a ABBR tag to put the skills in the tooltip. There's always compromises to be made, I think icons make the shop list easier to scan, and is worth the extra space. Having those icons also gives us other possibilities, for example see [[Sword#Equipment]]. --[[User:Gorgonzola|Gorgonzola]] ([[User talk:Gorgonzola|talk]]) 16:31, 6 October 2014 (CDT)
== Myconian Cave Map ==
Hi Notus, you seemed to start a discussion in your User page but I think it would be rude of me to edit your User page so I'll comment in the Talk page ;) -- The map is excellent. Realy nice, I didn't expect that you'd make icons for the various points of interest either. Very cool. (Hmm since I'm at "level 0" I 'm going to use slightly fancier formatting than the indents below)
'''Update''': I went ahead and updated the MAP infobox template so we have at least something ready. So atm the idea is that the template auto-generate the map filename (for consistency), see [[Myconian Cave]] for example. Filename is in the format "Dungeon Name (map).png" (unless a custom filename is passed to the template). Then a second image is displayed at the bottom of the MAP infobox, which represents the portal or entrance.
A few comments/thoughts/suggestions:
* "Should I remove spider markers?" If you mean the red bridge thing, I'd keep them as they are a nice landmark that can help players navigate or double check where they between the map and in-game. Aesthetically wise I also like that they give a tiny illusion of "height" to the map :)
* It's really good that you use a "flat color" design; as this usually compresses very well in either GIF or PNG formats. SO i'd recommend to continue using that format and avoid grainy patterns or gradients if yo uwant to get maximum quality at larger dimensions.
* At 2048pixels (resize of your first upload) a PNG 24 will be ~500kb. However since you use flat colour, we can pick a PNG 8 format (256 colour palette), it retains maximum sharpness and the same image is then ~196kb. If I pick GIF it is ~255kb. In both cases smaller than a 24 bit image. I think the aesthetic you have right now is pretty ideal. You can still add more colours as long as it's not gradients it will compress extremely well in PNG 8 bit with very sharp lines. FOr this I used Photoshop -> Save for Web. For trivia, note that in GIF format I can also get it down to ~194kb by using the "Lossy" option at 20. This moves pixels around to help the compression algorithm, but at the same 2048px size in my examples above, it is very hard to notice (just a trick to your arsenal if you din't know about it).
* Colour wise you've obviously got a feel for it, as you picked rather harmonious colours.Perhaps you could make the POI icons brighter so they sort of "pop" from the background? (same tint, but brighter). Minor thing though.
* I would remove the thick black outer edge. The reason for that is that it will make it easier to fit into a nice template. As it will almost certainly fit into a square box somewhere, the content of the map will gain more pixel space. A second reason is that if you really want it for aesthetic reasons, we can easily add such a border through css (<span style="display:inline-block;border:3px solid #000; border-radius:5px; background:#eee;padding:2px 5px;">with border and border-radius</span>) to the container, while reducing the image size further.
* I think it would be best to keep the notes into the dungeon article, otherwise it will be difficult to update. This will reduce the map file size further, and potentially let you zoom the map a little more within the image. '''edit''' [http://imgur.com/TgVY2Mk Here is a 1024px resize, without notes and border] this would be ideal to fit in the "MAP infobox" template, let me know what you think. The idea is that the notes is best left in the article body text.
I will continue discussion in [[Dungeon Template]] as it is relevant to the dungeon pages specifically. --[[User:Gorgonzola|Gorgonzola]] ([[User talk:Gorgonzola|talk]]) 05:30, 8 October 2014 (CDT)
Hi Notus, can I use the [http://imgur.com/TgVY2Mk example] "squared" image I mentioned earlier in the Myco Cave dungeon, in order to get a feel for the page and tweak the [[Template:MAP infobox]]? Also to get a feel for the image dimensions, at thumb and full size. We can replace it later with the ones you've finished. --[[User:Gorgonzola|Gorgonzola]] ([[User talk:Gorgonzola|talk]]) 05:21, 10 October 2014 (CDT)
:Sure, go ahead.
==Serbule Town Map?==
Hi Notus.. I had an idea earlier that just came to mind.. it may be a fun project? Just throwing it out there in case you like it: for new players I think it would be great on the [[Serbule]] page to have a zoomed-in map of exclusively the town. Because the map itself is very innacurate and low res zooming it as a base for placing NPC icons doesn't work well (I tried in Photoshop and it looks terrible). You could do it also in the "Super Nintendo" style ;) that outlines the town walls, buildings, well, fountain,.. and then you could have mainly the NPC icons on there with their names.
This would be just for Serbule Keep which is the first large town for new players, as the other towns/castle are quite small in comparison (as of the alpha). We could have both the zone map, and the town map in a side "infobox" [[Goblin Dungeon|similarly to how we have two images in the infobox of Goblin Dungeon]].
TLDR something like a "Serbule Keep map". --[[User:Gorgonzola|Gorgonzola]] ([[User talk:Gorgonzola|talk]]) 09:20, 10 October 2014 (CDT)
: I love the idea. I'm finishing up two other maps at the moment, then I'll start on that one. [[User:NotesOfNotus|NotesOfNotus]] ([[User talk:NotesOfNotus|talk]]) 10:19, 10 October 2014 (CDT)
::Sweet :) ps: I also commented on [[Talk:Council Lands]] to let you know about the improved quote template. --[[User:Gorgonzola|Gorgonzola]] ([[User talk:Gorgonzola|talk]]) 10:45, 10 October 2014 (CDT)
== Map Image Size ==
Hi Notus, keep in mind most people won't see a 4K image at 1:1 size anyway. 2048 might be more than enough. If you want you could put the large versions (uncompressed) on a Dropbox public place and post the links in your talk page and I can optimize and upload the pics for you (I don't know what program you use to export, typically I do it in Photoshop with "Save for Web"). --[[User:Gorgonzola|Gorgonzola]] ([[User talk:Gorgonzola|talk]]) 18:11, 14 October 2014 (CDT)
: 3,286 × 3,067 (642 KB) is currently the smallest I can export it without the map doing weird things on my end (I heavily modded my install of inkscape and can't export anything that isn't at 300dpi). The wiki seems to be able to properly generate thumbnails at this size as well. [[User:NotesOfNotus|NotesOfNotus]] ([[User talk:NotesOfNotus|talk]]) 18:22, 14 October 2014 (CDT)
:: Let me know when you want to add Crypt or other dungeon with 2 levels, I will add more parameters to the template so it can show 2 maps on the sidebar. --[[User:Gorgonzola|Gorgonzola]] ([[User talk:Gorgonzola|talk]]) 19:30, 14 October 2014 (CDT)
::: Alright. Current order: Tutorial Cave, Creepy Crystal Cave, Serbule town map, Basement Dungeon. Those are what I have hand-sketched so far. Still finishing them up digitally. [[User:NotesOfNotus|NotesOfNotus]] ([[User talk:NotesOfNotus|talk]]) 21:08, 14 October 2014 (CDT)
Hi Notus, regarding the Myconian update, when you add a Training section to the NPC, could you also copy/paste the abilities to the relevant Skill page, in a "Advanced Abilities" section? See [[Skill Template]]. Don't worry about documenting it in detail, if you just copy/paste the list that gets us started, so we know which NPC to go to (from the relevant skill page), and we can detail this advanced abilities table at a later time. --[[User:Gorgonzola|Gorgonzola]] ([[User talk:Gorgonzola|talk]]) 07:45, 6 October 2014 (CDT)
==Where to Detail Recipes==
Also in light of yesterday's in-game chat, I suppose it makes sense that we add all Recipes likewise to the Cooking , Carpentry, and other relevant skills. So if a player looks up cooking, all recipes would be there. It might be long.. but I don't see another solution. If they all are in the relevant crafting skill, then we can sort by NPC, or by level which is interesting (ie. see closest upgrade recipes, across any NPCs or other sources). So both Combat abilities and Recipes are like a mini TOC in the NPC pages, and the details are in the relevant skill page. Maybe we can find later a way to use # hash tag links to jump to the part of the table that is relevant to the NPC. --[[User:Gorgonzola|Gorgonzola]] ([[User talk:Gorgonzola|talk]]) 07:45, 6 October 2014 (CDT)
==Notification System==
Hi Notus, could you reply to this comment with a single indent (":") (see [http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Help:Talk_pages#Editing_conventions_on_talk_pages Using Talk Pages]). I would like to find out whether commenting (with the indents) sends a notification, even though you are posting on your own Talk Page. I suspect that it won't, as that is a feature in Wikipedia that requires some other extension. But I'm not sure yet. Thanks. --[[User:Gorgonzola|Gorgonzola]] ([[User talk:Gorgonzola|talk]]) 08:47, 6 October 2014 (CDT)
:Testing the reply function. Just about done the map (doing three different versions). Thanks --[[User:NotesOfNotus|NotesOfNotus]] ([[User talk:NotesOfNotus|talk]]) 19:33, 6 October 2014 (CDT)
::Awesome thank you. I confirm it doesn't work. I just refreshed the page recently and there wasn't any. --[[User:Gorgonzola|Gorgonzola]] ([[User talk:Gorgonzola|talk]]) 19:49, 6 October 2014 (CDT)
::: Interestingly, I got a notification from both your comments.--[[User:NotesOfNotus|NotesOfNotus]] ([[User talk:NotesOfNotus|talk]]) 19:56, 6 October 2014 (CDT)
:::: Yup, because it is on your own Talk page. But if I were to reply to you on another talk page, you won't get a notif. (not without some other extensions installed in the wiki). (so I saw your reply here in Recent Changes, but didn't get notified). --[[User:Gorgonzola|Gorgonzola]] ([[User talk:Gorgonzola|talk]]) 20:58, 6 October 2014 (CDT)
== NPC Shop Icons ==
Hi guys. I think the basic Shop icons templating is ready for use. See [[NPC Template]] and [[Item Icons Guide]]. Many icons are reused in-game so a lot of items in shop listings should be covered. We will just add icons over time whenever the fancy arise :) I have some ideas to make it easier to create those shop listings (with a little script).. but for now that's how it works. IF you somehow want more data on the shop, msg me in-game (Gorgonzola), or post on my page, or post on the [[Talk:NPC Template]] I should see it. Currently you can see one idea for Lucky Belt is I used a ABBR tag to put the skills in the tooltip. There's always compromises to be made, I think icons make the shop list easier to scan, and is worth the extra space. Having those icons also gives us other possibilities, for example see [[Sword#Equipment]]. --[[User:Gorgonzola|Gorgonzola]] ([[User talk:Gorgonzola|talk]]) 16:31, 6 October 2014 (CDT)
== Myconian Cave Map ==
Hi Notus, you seemed to start a discussion in your User page but I think it would be rude of me to edit your User page so I'll comment in the Talk page ;) -- The map is excellent. Realy nice, I didn't expect that you'd make icons for the various points of interest either. Very cool. (Hmm since I'm at "level 0" I 'm going to use slightly fancier formatting than the indents below)
'''Update''': I went ahead and updated the MAP infobox template so we have at least something ready. So atm the idea is that the template auto-generate the map filename (for consistency), see [[Myconian Cave]] for example. Filename is in the format "Dungeon Name (map).png" (unless a custom filename is passed to the template). Then a second image is displayed at the bottom of the MAP infobox, which represents the portal or entrance.
A few comments/thoughts/suggestions:
* "Should I remove spider markers?" If you mean the red bridge thing, I'd keep them as they are a nice landmark that can help players navigate or double check where they between the map and in-game. Aesthetically wise I also like that they give a tiny illusion of "height" to the map :)
* It's really good that you use a "flat color" design; as this usually compresses very well in either GIF or PNG formats. SO i'd recommend to continue using that format and avoid grainy patterns or gradients if yo uwant to get maximum quality at larger dimensions.
* At 2048pixels (resize of your first upload) a PNG 24 will be ~500kb. However since you use flat colour, we can pick a PNG 8 format (256 colour palette), it retains maximum sharpness and the same image is then ~196kb. If I pick GIF it is ~255kb. In both cases smaller than a 24 bit image. I think the aesthetic you have right now is pretty ideal. You can still add more colours as long as it's not gradients it will compress extremely well in PNG 8 bit with very sharp lines. FOr this I used Photoshop -> Save for Web. For trivia, note that in GIF format I can also get it down to ~194kb by using the "Lossy" option at 20. This moves pixels around to help the compression algorithm, but at the same 2048px size in my examples above, it is very hard to notice (just a trick to your arsenal if you din't know about it).
* Colour wise you've obviously got a feel for it, as you picked rather harmonious colours.Perhaps you could make the POI icons brighter so they sort of "pop" from the background? (same tint, but brighter). Minor thing though.
* I would remove the thick black outer edge. The reason for that is that it will make it easier to fit into a nice template. As it will almost certainly fit into a square box somewhere, the content of the map will gain more pixel space. A second reason is that if you really want it for aesthetic reasons, we can easily add such a border through css (<span style="display:inline-block;border:3px solid #000; border-radius:5px; background:#eee;padding:2px 5px;">with border and border-radius</span>) to the container, while reducing the image size further.
* I think it would be best to keep the notes into the dungeon article, otherwise it will be difficult to update. This will reduce the map file size further, and potentially let you zoom the map a little more within the image. '''edit''' [http://imgur.com/TgVY2Mk Here is a 1024px resize, without notes and border] this would be ideal to fit in the "MAP infobox" template, let me know what you think. The idea is that the notes is best left in the article body text.
I will continue discussion in [[Dungeon Template]] as it is relevant to the dungeon pages specifically. --[[User:Gorgonzola|Gorgonzola]] ([[User talk:Gorgonzola|talk]]) 05:30, 8 October 2014 (CDT)
Hi Notus, can I use the [http://imgur.com/TgVY2Mk example] "squared" image I mentioned earlier in the Myco Cave dungeon, in order to get a feel for the page and tweak the [[Template:MAP infobox]]? Also to get a feel for the image dimensions, at thumb and full size. We can replace it later with the ones you've finished. --[[User:Gorgonzola|Gorgonzola]] ([[User talk:Gorgonzola|talk]]) 05:21, 10 October 2014 (CDT)
:Sure, go ahead.
==Serbule Town Map?==
Hi Notus.. I had an idea earlier that just came to mind.. it may be a fun project? Just throwing it out there in case you like it: for new players I think it would be great on the [[Serbule]] page to have a zoomed-in map of exclusively the town. Because the map itself is very innacurate and low res zooming it as a base for placing NPC icons doesn't work well (I tried in Photoshop and it looks terrible). You could do it also in the "Super Nintendo" style ;) that outlines the town walls, buildings, well, fountain,.. and then you could have mainly the NPC icons on there with their names.
This would be just for Serbule Keep which is the first large town for new players, as the other towns/castle are quite small in comparison (as of the alpha). We could have both the zone map, and the town map in a side "infobox" [[Goblin Dungeon|similarly to how we have two images in the infobox of Goblin Dungeon]].
TLDR something like a "Serbule Keep map". --[[User:Gorgonzola|Gorgonzola]] ([[User talk:Gorgonzola|talk]]) 09:20, 10 October 2014 (CDT)
: I love the idea. I'm finishing up two other maps at the moment, then I'll start on that one. [[User:NotesOfNotus|NotesOfNotus]] ([[User talk:NotesOfNotus|talk]]) 10:19, 10 October 2014 (CDT)
::Sweet :) ps: I also commented on [[Talk:Council Lands]] to let you know about the improved quote template. --[[User:Gorgonzola|Gorgonzola]] ([[User talk:Gorgonzola|talk]]) 10:45, 10 October 2014 (CDT)
== Map Image Size ==
Hi Notus, keep in mind most people won't see a 4K image at 1:1 size anyway. 2048 might be more than enough. If you want you could put the large versions (uncompressed) on a Dropbox public place and post the links in your talk page and I can optimize and upload the pics for you (I don't know what program you use to export, typically I do it in Photoshop with "Save for Web"). --[[User:Gorgonzola|Gorgonzola]] ([[User talk:Gorgonzola|talk]]) 18:11, 14 October 2014 (CDT)
: 3,286 × 3,067 (642 KB) is currently the smallest I can export it without the map doing weird things on my end (I heavily modded my install of inkscape and can't export anything that isn't at 300dpi). The wiki seems to be able to properly generate thumbnails at this size as well. [[User:NotesOfNotus|NotesOfNotus]] ([[User talk:NotesOfNotus|talk]]) 18:22, 14 October 2014 (CDT)
:: Let me know when you want to add Crypt or other dungeon with 2 levels, I will add more parameters to the template so it can show 2 maps on the sidebar. --[[User:Gorgonzola|Gorgonzola]] ([[User talk:Gorgonzola|talk]]) 19:30, 14 October 2014 (CDT)
::: Alright. Current order: Tutorial Cave, Creepy Crystal Cave, Serbule town map, Basement Dungeon. Those are what I have hand-sketched so far. Still finishing them up digitally. [[User:NotesOfNotus|NotesOfNotus]] ([[User talk:NotesOfNotus|talk]]) 21:08, 14 October 2014 (CDT)
